Produktionsblock:
B-17G-10-BO: 42-31232 bis 42-31331
Hersteller:
Boeing
- Bomber-Gruppe:
- 452nd Bomb Group
- Bomber-Staffel:
- 731st Bomb Squadron
MACR: 3190
Geschichte der
B-17 42-31331 / Mon Tete Rouge aka Tina Tangerine
Delivered Cheyenne 25/10/43; Walla Walla 6/11/43; Assigned: 731BS/452BG Deopham Green; MIA Berlin 8/3/44 Pilot: Glenn Butterworth, Co-Pilot: Joe Schaller, Navigator: Chas Mueller, Engineer / Top Turret Gunner: Jim Mullany, Radio Operator: Fred Thibodeau, Ball Turret Gunner: John Leatherbury, Waist Gunner: Milton Knedler, Waist Gunner: Andy VanOver, Tail Gunner: Marlin Monson (9POW); Bombardier: Orville Robertson (KIA); Enemy aircraft KO’d #3 then shattered cockpit, crash-landed on bank of River Weser, near Nienburg, Germany. MACR 3190. MON TETE ROUGE aka TINA TANGERINE.
Zuletzt aktualisiert: 20. April 2018
19. Mai 2019 access_time 16:16
The Mon Tete Rouge was not also known as Tangerine. I believe the crew , my father was the navigator, Charles Mueller, had flown the Mon Tete Rouge previously and it was damaged. When they flew their last mission, it was dark and they assumed their plane was repaired and they flew their last mission to bomb Berlin. The Mon Tete Rouge had not been repaired in time and they were switched to the Tangerinre, unbeknownst to the crew. They were shot down and became POWs. My father was sent to Staalag luft III (of The Great Escape fame) before being sent to Stalag VII near Moosburg, where they were liberated by Patton
09. September 2019 access_time 2:18
My father Milton knedler was also on that flight. Don’t know if crews were kept together but he was on luftstalag 6
09. September 2019 access_time 2:09
My father Milton knedler was also on that plane and was taken to luftstalag 6. I don’t know if crews were kept together
31. Dezember 2023 access_time 22:22
Keith, I’ll go through my Dad’s records this weekend to see if they were both part of the same crew. My Dad was a 2nd Lt. The Germans separated the officers from the non. All the POWs at Stalag Luft III were officers….
31. Dezember 2023 access_time 22:32
Keith, Yes, your Dad was the waist gunner. I believe they flew together on the Mon Tete Rouge which was damaged on an earlier mission and unbeknownst to the crew in the early morn they border their plain for the Berlin bombing, but they had been switched to the Tangerine, and were shot down all the while thinking they had been on the Mon Tete Rouge….
03. Januar 2024 access_time 19:19
To: Mark Mueller: Are you the son of Charles Mueller, navigator of the Butterworth crew?
I intend to write a chapter about them in our book. If you like, send me an eMail, so we could change information. Jens Schaper
27. Januar 2024 access_time 5:02
Jens, Yes my father was the navigator on Butterworth’s crew. I have so much info on voice tapes of my father describing his entire flying experience, plus I have actual photos from Stalag Luft III. Would love to speak with you!
08. Februar 2025 access_time 19:41
I have so much information; My Father describing his entire length of service; his describing their bombing missions;mhis description of his time as a POW at Stalag Luft III; their forced march to Moosburg: and finally his kind of meeting of Gen Patton!
14. April 2020 access_time 14:46
Keith,
My Mom and Dad re-visited the city and site of where they crash landed and met some townspeople who were children at the time but remembered the crash. With the help of a German historian, they tried to locate the name of the pilot that shot them down, to no avail.
27. Januar 2024 access_time 17:20
Mark,
I talked to your father several times on the phone 12 years ago.
His crash landing happened nearly 80 years ago not far from here.
His story will be published in a German book next year.
My phone no is +49 4272 654
We might make a telephone date next 2 weeks.
All the best
Jens Schaper
D-27254 Staffhorst
jensschaper@gmx.de
08. Februar 2025 access_time 19:45
Jens, I am sure you are the gentleman my Father had mentioned (you were helping him with research on the German pilot who shot down his B-17 (he wanted to meet him to discuss for knowledge sake and now comraderie! I would love to purchase your book. If you would advise me on how, I will try to respond ASAP. Thank you
31. Juli 2024 access_time 0:53
Gentlemen, I just happened on this site today (July 30, 2024). My father Fred Thibodeau was the radioman on Glen Butterworth’s crew. I have a different take on which plane went by which name. Mark Mueller, I think you might have the story reversed. Here is my understanding from what Fred told me. Butterworth’s regular plane was Tangerine. Mon Tete Rouge was normally flow by Capt Harold G. Fulmer. The day our dad’s were shot down, March 8 1944, Tangerine was out for service. As a result Butterworth’s crew flew that day in Fulmer’s plane Mon Tete Rouge. I’m guessing Fulmer’s crew was not scheduled to fly that mission on March 8, so Butterworth’s crew was assigned to Mon Tete Rouge instead. (I remember my dad recounting some of this story and him referring to Mon Tete Rouge as “…that damn plane of Fulmer’s.” So I’m positive they were shot down on Mon Tete Rouge as the available records recount. I’m also sure that was a different plane than Tangerine – not aka (also known as) Tangerine. In December 1944, Fulmer got an new B-17G which he named Mon Tete Rouge II. This is the aircraft you normally find when googling Mon Tete Rouge. My dad, Fred Thibodeau ended up at Stalag Luft IV in northwestern Poland, and at the end of the war had to survive the 80 day, +400 mile Black March that started from Stalag Luft IV on February 6 1945 (he was liberated April 26, 1945). To respond to another question above, the Germans did split up the crews to different camps to make it harder for prisoners to organize resistance. Jens Schaper, I am traveling soon (August 11 to Aug 23 2024) to the Stalag Luft IV memorial in Tychowo Poland. And, with my son, we are going to try to follow the route of the Black March into Germany (as best we know it). I would love to make contact with anyone in this message chain. My phone is +1-651-485-4060 (call or text). If you do not already have it, this web link to the American Air Museum in Britain site has details on all the crew members: https://www.americanairmuseum.com/archive/aircraft/42-31331 . Thank you all for the information you have posted here.
08. Februar 2025 access_time 19:55
Joe, As I recounted your story to my wife (who has an encyclopedic memory) she said you are correct and that I had the plane names reversed! By now you and your son have made your trip to Stalag Luft IV! How was it? Were you able to make the trip of the Black March? I am so excited for you and your son! Thanks for clearing up the plane names and hoping our paths may cross one day. BTW, where do you live? I have recordings from my Dad from an interview I did where he describes their history from flight training to their liberation!!
09. Februar 2025 access_time 11:59
Thank you very much for your information.
In March 2025 I am going to write a short version of the B-a17 Tangerine`s crash landing across the river Weser south of Nienburg/W. on Mar 8, 1944.
In case I have some questions I let you know.
I do this to provide a chapter in my book. It will tell the stories of 30 crews in WW II.
All the best so far to all of you in the US or elsewhere..
Jens Schaper